September 28, 2008

Saying NO to ISTQB Software Testing Boards

Back in 2005, I participated in an initiation discussion of a new "Bangladesh Software Testing Board" under ISTQB. It was a very disappointing discussion. Instead of giving attention to how they would try to improve the skills of the testers or tester wannabes in Bangladesh, they were more concerned about who will be in the board and how they will register it legally. It was obvious that almost all of the individuals involved in this initiative were not testers. I would have said ALL, but maybe I had failed to notice someone. Just maybe. I brushed off this initiative as just a hype. I did not expect much would ever happen, and I was right.

In 2007, two nice gentlemen from this yet to be initiated board came to talk to me about my opinions about this initiative. I am sure I am not the only one they spoke to. I expressed my skepticism, and interestingly they said they understood many of my concerns. They had very little knowledge about how certification actually undermines our testing craft. They even had very little knowledge about the other so-called famous certifiers in the business. Even this time, non of them were testers. But atleast they had the courage to admit that they did not know much about testing.

Finally, a month back, I was called up by one of the Executive Committee members (a good man with good intentions), from this yet to be initiated board, to invite me to their Executive Committee. But I declined. I mentioned my disappointment in the lack of progress they were making (not that I actually wished they would make progress in certification) and that their mission is not clear to me. He spent the next 30 minutes to convince me about their seriousness to move beyond mere certification. He gave me hints of intending to bring certified trainers from abroad, and tried to encourage me to join them. He even suggested to call up a meeting with the other EC members to discuss this further, and clear my doubts.

I was actually a little flattered by all this (the dark side within me). But I still refused to join them and instead told him that I would rather like to be part of their planning on how they intend to train testers in Bangladesh, and what precautions they would take not to undermine the testing craft. I did not have to be in the Executive Committee for that. He finally agreed. To be honest, I doubt this approach will ever work out. I think they would again disappear for another year or so because of their historical lack of commitment.

You see, there is no way I can pursue my thoughts about the dangers of certification, if I am involved with one myself. I would be known as a hypocrite. Here is the hall of fame where I chose not to include my name.

Meanwhile I am continuing my advocacy against certifications in my local forum, and it has grown to be a very hot topic, requiring the full commitment of myself and others. The discussion grew to about 40+ posts in just one week, with experience reports of certified testers and those who suffered its consequences. One thing for sure, it is not easy to go against the tide. It started off with people being disappointed in my opinions about certification, but now things are looking very productive indeed.

I will probably be summarizing some of these discussion points in a blog post soon. But until then here is one of my latest response to the long thread.

15 comments:

  1. After looking at www.sqabd.com, your blog, Lightning talks, Offline meets from Bangladeshi's, I was mentioning to my colleague that Bangladesh might become a potential competitor to India in testing business.

    How about trying to be different from the world by saying No to any certifications in testing that doesn't test for testing skills but mere memorizing capability.

    I don't want to oppose any people behind this because that's not whom I want to help but I want people who want to take up such certifications to think, question and analyze.

    Sajjadul did you share James Bach's blog post link "Against Certification"?

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  2. Pradeep,

    That probably is the best compliment I have heard so far about Bangladeshi Testing. Thanks.

    I am optimistic, but in reality that would take some time. Testing in Bangladesh is still at its infancy, but I guess that is our advantage. We can learn from the failed scenarios of others.


    >How about trying to be different from the world by saying No to any certifications in testing that doesn't test for testing skills but mere memorizing capability.

    I am trying to start by at least having my forum members to say NO :) I feel I am making progress, and not just with the testers.


    > Sajjadul did you share James Bach's blog post link "Against Certification"?

    Yes I did...but not often enough.

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  3. Hi Sir,
    This is Gangadhar just 1 year kid in the testing field. I have recently gone through your article about the ISTQB.
    But in many more MNC companies situated in our country (India) they are preferring and recruiting the person who has done the certifications( For E.g.: Myself until I pass my certification they were not ready to permit my position in the company)
    So, if your opposing ISTQB rather than writing against it being giant in the quality profession you people can try to get the best of it.
    You people are spoiling upcoming, fresher testing engineer’s future and their family indirectly.
    Finally Qualification + certifications gives job, job gives experience, experience makes thinking better.
    So I am requesting you people to try to improve standards of ISTQB, if you were not satisfied rather than giving your opinions.
    Quarrelling between the parents makes their children suffer and sick

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  4. Gangadhar,

    Those companies who actually ask for freshers who are certified, probably don't know how to interview. They probably don't have skilled testers who can conduct the interviews. They probably don't have skilled testers who can build your testing skills. They probably don't know about the enormous demerits of certifications. Would freshers who really have the ambition to be great at testing, want to join these companies that prefer certified people over smarter people.

    I understand that sometimes some well paying companies may be preferring certified candidates. But would you want to join a company just for the money, whose ideals you do not believe in. That would not be your only opportunity, because there are countless other companies who do not prefer certified candidates. You will probably have more job satisfaction their, because they will be respecting your skills and not your certification.

    As for trying to improve the quality of the certifications. James Bach has tried to do so from the inside and has not seen any progress. I also mentioned in this post how I tried to express my concerns to them, more than once, and I still see no change in their thinking.

    Understand that testing certification is a very profitable business. It is flourishing because of the ignorance of people who promote them. The certifiers would not want people to get smarter because that would hurt their revenues. I for one do not want to make these "business men" rich by feeding on naive individuals.

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  5. I was also interested for giving the exam of ISTQB... I thought I'll go India if I do not get any Institute in BD. But after reading you comment, I'm little bit confused.

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  6. Now that you are confused about your initial decision, I would say that is a start in the right direction. At least now you will start thinking more about the pros and cons of getting certified instead having blind faith on certification propaganda.

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  7. Hi Sajjadul Hakim,
    You do have an interesting viewpoint regarding the certification.
    It is true that, to achieve the certificate, one need to have the memorizing skill.
    You don’t have to be a tester/QAE to achieve the certification. Furthermore, to achieve the certification, you have to expend a lot. But there are some positive sides of these certifications.
    1. The fresh graduate can learn about the fundamental regarding the QA and QC activities from an expert. Because in our country, most of the Software firms do not have the proper training session for the newly employed QAE & tester. So these certifications can help them to start their career with a bit of confidence.
    2. These certified experts can enrich the Skill matrix of the software firms. Which will help them to convince the foreign clients to take the QA/QC supports from them. There are so many foreign clients, do not want to pay extra money for QA support. These certifications can help our local firms to sell QA support.

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  8. I am also not satisfied with ISTQB. In the university we studied Computer Science but at the job we found a big gap while working as QA. Just saying no to ISTQB is not enough. Why don't you start monthly workshop or seminar on QA in bangladesh?

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  9. Thank you for your idea - to arrange monthly workshop regarding QA+QC in Bangladesh.
    But there are some issues related to arrange monthly workshop. The first issue is to manage time for this.
    The professionals who are involved in the field of QA, hardly mange time. But if it is possible than it will be beneficial for all. I do have an idea – we can knock initially to the Software firms who are mostly involved with outsourcing services to foreign clients and setup workshop in their premises. It will enrich the awareness of quality to the IT sector in Bangladesh.
    But I can’t just subside the certification. Defiantly it will add value to the individuals. And specially for ISTQB – this is the first time someone provide the facility for the Bangladeshi QAE to sit for such certification exam which contain much value internationally.
    I also like to mention one thing is - to acquire international certificate cannot be the end of knowledge enrichment. It is just one of the step for continues Quality Improvement for individual which will make a positive impact in the Local IT sector too.

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  10. Hi Saiful,
    This is natural to have grief regarding the activities of the Board who are organizing the ISTQB certification course. But don’t you think we(QA Engineers) should be thankful to them. At least they took the initiatives and conducted the first course by giving depreciation. Though they are not involved in software development sector, they tried their best to provide the opportunity for our Local QAE.
    Obviously they will think about their profit by making money – because that provides them bread & butter.
    It is our(QAE who are interesting in ISTQB certification) responsibility to increase the awareness of certifications and the Continuous Quality Improvement of our IT industry.
    I remember - few of us discussed that we will spare some time to sit together and planned for the growth and improvements. But we never managed ourselves.
    In a nutshell, what I feel is ‘we should take initiative rather giving advice’

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  11. I knew little more than Sajjad vai for involving BSTB (Bangladesh Software Testing Board) long days.

    I was in the first meeting back in 2005 and they came to me 2007 and you know I never gave up unless I found something worthless. But some others are smart than me to find it earlier. Even they published my name in the local newspaper before the first certification exam and I had courage by then.

    I have spent with them several hours in different dates. I have given them the idea: okay you make money or do business I have no problem. Before that at least make awareness of it; having seminars, workshops and involve practitioners. They never listen neither in past nor at this time. I had even shared them not to involve so many peoples with high profile; they simply busy with their job and will never think of it. People should be contributing to make something successful. I had shared all I can and brought others expert to contribute.

    I was not happy with their activities back in the 2006 while knocking them for update but still then I was thinking of good from the group. I had little doubt about the group though because maximum of the executive board member were too busy to think about it or attending different meetings. There were quorum problem and different time they failed to continue their meeting.

    Finally after the first certification camp and later meeting I gave up. I have spent enough hours for them and no use. They will do on their way; so why to favor them and especially if there is no outcome? Last time also I have done the marketing work for certification exam.

    This time I simply ignored them because I have no other choice.

    ”Professional certification adds value nothing more it’s never carrying the sign of (Good/Better/Best)”

    At least I have tried for the good...

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  12. @Jobayer

    I am sorry for disagreeing with you. You have just joined them few months back but I have given time since 2005. Already I have said they will make money no problem with me. But if you can remember at the last meeting: Masud Parvez, SQA Manager at BIPL came and at the end nothing happened. There were supposed to be presentation at the fair; neither we got informed nor any update. Since then the new comer also got disappointed; all just word not in work.

    You may feel they are doing well for us but I cannot. I have talked several times regarding improvement no use of it and I had no profit from it, you know that.

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  13. Hi Saiful.
    I agree with you about one thing – they have some lack regarding the marketing of ISTQB certification courses. But you should try to understand their position about it. They are running a training institute where several courses been conducted. Among them ISTQB is the less profitable course. In fact till now it is a loss project for them. So if you are in their position – what had you been done for it? Obviously you will not going to prioritize on something, which will not give you enough return. More over I remember they send all of us the invitation to join the international conference or be a partner of the working committee. But none of the QAE ever tries to attend the seminar or joined as a part of the working committee. The DIIT people joined few of the conferences by spending their own money. We(QAE) should be ashamed of ourselves. After the last meeting as far as I know – they tried but could not able to get any free slot for the seminar.
    What so ever, BSTB is planning to conduct one more course very soon. If it is possible, I believe we should support them with our might. Not because of their profit, but to do something for our QA society of Bangladesh. You know it very well that – I myself will not going to gain anything out of it. Do i?
    In addition, I like to say one thing. That is - certification is not making an expert in QA/QC but defiantly add values to his/her career for sure. I have attended the last course and it helped me.
    As a Deshi QAE we have to depend on the blogs and forums to improve ourselves. There are very few seminars been conducted till now and most of them been conducted by SQABD, which were great. We need more activities like that – does not care under which banner.
    We need to be an optimistic to grow. There is a long way to go – for our IT Industries. I been to Bangalore for nine years(1995 - 2004) and I saw the way they nurture themselves to become the best IT hub in India. How they added value in marketing through these certification courses. There are miles to say on this but have to limit it for now. You have been to Chennai too. So you do know about it.
    All the best for future. Keep in touch

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  14. Hi Jobayer,

    Find my comments below:

    > Obviously you will not going to prioritize on something, which will not give you enough return.

    So I guess we all agree this is a business, which is ok in my opinion, as long as it is not about selling certificates, but rather about building testers.


    > More over I remember they send all of us the invitation to join the international conference or be a partner of the working committee. But none of the QAE ever tries to attend the seminar or joined as a part of the working committee. The DIIT people joined few of the conferences by spending their own money.

    Its not worth the effort anymore. Read my post again. By the way, were there any testers among the "DIIT" people who joined the conferences?


    > If it is possible, I believe we should support them with our might. Not because of their profit, but to do something for our QA society of Bangladesh.

    How would that help the testers?


    > That is - certification is not making an expert in QA/QC but defiantly add values to his/her career for sure. I have attended the last course and it helped me.

    Do they teach you how to test? Do they demonstrate any testing skills?


    > As a Deshi QAE we have to depend on the blogs and forums to improve ourselves.

    What is wrong with that? I had the same exposure.


    > There are very few seminars been conducted till now and most of them been conducted by SQABD, which were great. We need more activities like that – does not care under which banner.

    I agree with you on that...But I still think blogs and forums are a great resource to read/discuss about the skills of testers and their experiences.


    > I been to Bangalore for nine years(1995 - 2004) and I saw the way they nurture themselves to become the best IT hub in India. How they added value in marketing through these certification courses.

    You may want to read Pradeep's blog: http://testertested.blogspot.com/


    Do not be fooled by sales/marketing gimmicks.

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  15. Hello Guys!

    If you ever see the job openings for sw testing you will rarely find 1 or 2 openings asking for ISEB/ISQTB certifications. Most of the co's i was interviewed were putting questions on JAVA, c# and database more than asking any stuff on sw dev cycle. This becomes irritating becuase they expect as sw quality analyst to be of the same profile as a developer but finally do the job of the analyst.

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